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John Warrillow: There’s an old saying that goes revenue is vanity and profit is sanity. And my next guess, Mitch Durfee, learned that one the hard way. He built a company up to a point where he was employing 20 people, $1.4 million in revenue, yet the company was worthless in his own estimation with more than $100,000 in debt. He turned it around, and Mitch will go through and describe how he went about turning around the business focusing in on specific element of the business that he thought would scale. Here to tell you the rest of the story is Mitch Durfee.
Mitch Durfee, welcome to Built to Sell Radio.
Mitch Durfee: Wow, what an honor.
John Warrillow: Hey man, it’s great to chat with you. I can’t wait to hear about this company, Grunts Move Junk. It’s awesome. What did you guys do?
Mitch Durfee: Grunts Move Junk was almost specifically designed to put our veterans back into the workforce. When I came back from Afghanistan, I kind of struggled with finding my place on the rock trying to figure out what it was that I was supposed to do. I got into real estate, and while I was in real estate, because I was deployed for so long, I didn’t really know anyone. And having a network in real estate is pretty crucial if you’re trying to sell real estate.
But when I saw was this opportunity where– like every week, I would see an email come up and like, “Hey, does anyone know anyone that can do some moving? Is there anyone that can help me move this weekend?” And I have a lot of veteran friends that were coming back from overseas and they were looking for work.
I reached out and like, “Hey, I have these two friends over here that could help out this weekend.” It kind of just clicked where it’s like, in order for me to supplement my real estate business, maybe I can create this moving business. Within the first six months, we had 12 employees, and it just took off from there.
John Warrillow: Wow, that’s fantastic. What were you selling? You’re selling moving services to home owners? Describe the kind of customer you’re selling to.
Mitch Durfee: Yeah. When we first started off, our big mission was junk removal and moving business, and that was just built out of the necessity of when people are moving out, they are getting rid of stuff and they had to move their other stuff to their new homes. The two services that we offer were just essentially just moving and junk removal services to home owners and commercial.
John Warrillow: Got it. How did that evolve over time, Mitch? Take me through the trajectory of the business.
Mitch Durfee: Yeah. Being an entrepreneur and being this visionary, when I started it, I thought we were just going to do all these different things. I remember drawing out this big picture and I was like, “Okay, we’ll have a cleaning service, we’ll have a moving service, we’ll have a landscape service, we’ll have a construction service.” I kind of like have this big picture in my office where it’s like, how far can we go? As you know, as you develop out too big, you actually get less efficient. So, I just have a–
John Warrillow: That happened to you?
Mitch Durfee: Oh yeah, really. In the beginning, we were doing a few different things and the moving and junk was good. Then once we had that rolling, we started offering other services. These are customers that asked us if we did other services because they were so, I guess, excited about the services we offered. So they kept asking us to do more and we just thought, okay, we’ll just hire a couple more people that can do these skills.
John Warrillow: What kind of stuff did you start doing?
Mitch Durfee: We started doing landscaping. Even in the winter, we started snow plowing. We started doing painting, cleaning services, and just got really diluted with what our original business was about, because it was originally Grunts Move Junk. It wasn’t Grunts Clean Up or Grunts Landscaping or Grunts Painting. There is just Grunts Move Junk but we’re still doing all of these different services under the same name.
John Warrillow: So it was your customers asking you to diversify in this way?
Mitch Durfee: Yeah. We provided a really high level of service. We’re uniform. We’re professional. We’re on time. We’d send follow-up emails after the fact. Our customers, they loved what our mission was about which was putting our veterans back into the workforce, so they wanted to keep giving us work. Anytime they have a project, they would come to us and ask us, “Hey, do you guys do this service?” And of course being the young business owner, it was like, “Yes, we can do that,” even though it wasn’t our specialty.
John Warrillow: What happened?
Mitch Durfee: Well, after a few years of doing this, the construction side of our business – because we were doing painting and construction, well, we got a little too big. We did a couple of projects for construction, commercial projects. Then we took on this really big build out and we had project management teams in place, the contract’s in place, but the project just kept getting bigger as more opportunity was provided to the customer.
John Warrillow: What was the project you’re doing?
Mitch Durfee: We were building a brewery, a new event space for a brewery. The project just, you know, they kept adding on new sections but we weren’t really staying on top of, like, “Hey, we need to do a change order because it was…” In the beginning, it was an hourly contract. We would just do the work for what they needed. When they added a new project on, I guess their estimate in their minds were, okay, we can just keep adding on these projects but it’s not going to cost us more.
Then something threw off their finances on their side, to the best of my knowledge, and at that point in time, we realized that, we’re never going to get paid unless we fund this and finish it. Otherwise, it’s going to be an empty building with the – all built out but no – the tiles are not done, the walls aren’t painted, the lights aren’t hung. So we took it on ourselves to be like, “Okay well, at this point in time, we’re either both going to lose or and we’re going to look like the bad person that doesn’t finish the project.” So it was like this balance where we’re like, okay, we can fund it until it’s done. Once it’s done, then we can figure out a payment plan.
So we kept going forward and we kept asking for – we reduced what we were asking for the payments and to a point where we got almost $100,000 in debt. It got to a point and I remember it was in the middle of December when it’s like, “Okay, we just can’t do this anymore.” The walls are up, the lights are on, the floor is done. We worked straight through the nights and tried to finish this project so that they could have this big event at the end of the year, the New Year’s Eve event, the Christmas holiday parties, and all these things, so that we could hopefully start getting some payments from the income that would come in. Then they decided that they were not going to pay us and had absolutely no intention of paying us.
John Warrillow: So you’re $100,000 in debt. Give me a sense of your top line, Mitch, at this point, like the annual revenue from the company. What’s your annual revenue?
Mitch Durfee: Yeah. We’re talking about $1.4 million a year in annual gross.
John Warrillow: Number of employees at that point?
Mitch Durfee: We had 20 employees in one location. We had a second location with another owner and he had another six there. He was doing about another 500k. So, just shy of two million.
John Warrillow: How did you finance the debt? So you’re taking on this 100,000 of debt. Have you got a bank loan? Are you using credit cards? What’s your mechanism for financing that?
Mitch Durfee: Yeah, owner financing. I was pulling money from other businesses that I had, because I invested in real estate for the last five years and the money that I was using for other projects, typically my flip homes and those kinds of things, I was pulling money from those. Then it got down to a point where my savings was drawn, my check payments was drawn, my credit cards were dipping into – I use an Amex, so every month, I have to pay it off, and it’s like, there’s no way I’m going to be able to pay this.
It got to a point where it’s like – I remember going out and just plowing. We had a snow storm and it’s like, I’m not going to be able to cover payroll. And I always lived by two golden rules in my business, and it was always pay my vendors and pay my employees, everything else after that, I can figure out, but those two golden rules, I will never break ever in a business. When we had the snow storm, I’m like, okay this is my chance to go out and maybe make a little bit of money so I can cover payroll this week. And I did. I worked 30 hours right straight through the night and that’s – actually, it’s funny because my – during this week or just the week before, one of my amazing friends, Jay Cummings, recommended a book called Built to Sell to me and–
John Warrillow: I’ve heard of that.
Mitch Durfee: Yeah, it’s a great book. I remember out there plowing, thinking to myself like – I can remember the driveway that I pulled into and I’m like, let me turn this book on. I turned it on, I started listening to it, and throughout the night I’m kind of like, man, I just could not turn it off. I think I listened to that thing for the next 20 hours straight just at 2X. I listened to it I think half a dozen times. It’s like, this is what’s wrong with my business. This is why we’re losing because we got distracted by doing too many things when we’re a moving company. We’re a moving company and we’re a junk removal company, why are we trying to do all these other things?
Then the next morning, I remember like I pulled into a gas station to get a coffee and it’s like I can’t – I was in tears. I’m like, “I have to make these decisions right now. I have to make the most difficult decisions of my life,” because we built these relationships with my friends. I mean, they’re always like a family to me, all these people that we’re working with, and they were the construction side.
I remember calling up the project manager, my amazing friend, and still to this day a good friend, and just telling him like, “We got to meet, man. I can’t do this right now. We’re so far in debt that…” And I knew he knew, but I don’t know if he knew how far in debt we were. But it was like, we have to make a change, we have to shut this down, and it’s like, even if I shut this down, it’s going to take me a year to even dig myself out of this business.
In your book even, it’s like my business is worth nothing. I can’t even sell it right now. Even if I tried to sell my business, who’s going to pay for a company that just took this huge hit even though the other two sides of my business; the moving and junk business are doing extremely well. So we made those type of decisions and on January 1st, we cut a third of our business, almost $600,000 of our business. We just said, no more, don’t ever take another project on, don’t –
John Warrillow: What is it that you cut, Mitch? What kinds of projects did you cut?
Mitch Durfee: We got very lean. We cut all the painting. I didn’t do anymore – I said I don’t want to plow anymore. All these projects that weren’t scalable. So no more plowing, no more painting, no more construction, no more cleaning, exclusively junk and moving. That’s the only two things that we’re going to do now.
The hardest part of owning a business is being in debt and making that decision. Then right after we made that decision, we lost quite a few employees, managers that decided that if we’re not going to do these projects, they don’t want to be a part of the team. So we got very, very lean. We’re down to like eight employees.
John Warrillow: So you went from 20 to eight employees.
Mitch Durfee: Yeah and we’re in debt. On top of all that, that week, we got audited for our workman’s comp because of all the extra hours we were putting to this project and we got hit with another $30,000 workman’s comp collections. It’s like, “Are you kidding me?” It was like, “How much more can a guy take in business?” Our mission was just to put guys back to the workforce and I felt like everything was just weighing down on me. I made the decision to sell my personal vehicle. It’s like, okay, this is the only thing I can do to – I worked for the workman’s comp to create a payment plan. They still needed half of that down and I still needed to come up with payroll for the guys for another two weeks.
So I sold my – I remember driving down. I drove actually four hours to try to sell my truck. I sent pictures, I sent emails, I got a quote over the phone like what they were paid for. I drove all the way down there for four hours and I remember getting to the dealership and they’re like – they take it out, they test drive it, and then after and like, “Oh, is there another vehicle in the lot you’re interested in today?” I’m like, “No, I’m just looking to sell this one vehicle like we talked about.” They said, “Well, we can’t actually just give you cash for this. We can get you a trade-in if you’re interested.” I’m like, “We already talked about this. We’ve already been through this.” They said, “Well, we can’t buy it today.”
So I drove four hours all the way down to try to sell a vehicle to come up with enough payroll to get rid of the – to cover the business and keep it alive for another week, and they said no. So I’m driving home, I’m about two hours home and I’m just thinking to myself, what can I possibly do in this situation? There was another dealership that was down by my house and I actually – I got off the highway, I was getting to ready to pass the exit and I’m like, let me just stop in real quick. That was about 7:30 at night and they close in another hour or so. I’m like, “Hey, I’m just interested and wonder if you guys will be interested in buying this vehicle.” They’re like, “Sure.” They actually gave me $2,000 more than what the other place that I drove four hours for.
In that moment in time, I had a little bit more cash flow and we got very, very lean and specific on the jobs that we’re doing. One of our team members was like – I called him up and like, “Hey, man. What do you want to do? We can call it quits or we can try to rebuild this.” He’s like, “We have an amazing business. We know what we’re doing. Every year we get better. If we didn’t get burned on this last project, then we would have an incredible year. We would have crushed that year.” He’s like, “Let’s just keep going with this. Let’s do this. I believe in what we’re doing. Let’s go forward.”
Without him, I might have quit that day. Max, I would say Max Costas turned everything around for me. We started implementing procedures. We got very clear on our hiring processes. We got very clear on our systems and procedures. We turned down other businesses in fact we created relationships with other contractors to refer us business.
John Warrillow: With those relationships, Mitch, were you getting paid a spiff if you referred someone over to another company? Did you get a commission or some sort of referral?
Mitch Durfee: Yeah, we got kickbacks all the time for referring things out to other people that were specializing in that business. They’d give us 10% of some of the sales. It’s like, “Why are we doing all these headache work before when we can just focus on what we were good at?” We’re still getting paid for making the referral, which is an easier business.
John Warrillow: So you focused in on just doing moving and junk removal. Make me go through the process in your own mind. Describe for folks. Because I think a lot of people listening to that would be really nervous to walk away from all that revenue, right? They’ve built a company up. Part of what makes us proud is be able to say our top line, right? Like, we’re a million four, and that sort of lets us puff out our chest and feel good about that.
Mitch Durfee: Right.
John Warrillow: I’m assuming that that was tough for you to walk away from all that revenue.
Mitch Durfee: Yeah, it was extremely tough. I remember pulling up my balance sheet and my profit and loss and be like, okay, this is what we’re doing. “This is what we’re doing here. I’m like, there’s no way we’re going to be able to cover expenses if we just go back to get us and just do these two things.” It’s like we’re spending all these money here and – But the truth is, if you 80/20 it, really a majority of our profits were coming from these two services. So even though our top line was very well over that – by cutting this, we were going to go below a million again. It’s like, over these years, we built this million dollar company and when you sink below that, like you said, it’s a little bit of a pride thing, but at this point, it was more of a survival thing. It’s like, we don’t really have a choice, but we have to make this decision.
John Warrillow: Was having a million-dollar company a goal of yours?
Mitch Durfee: Yeah. When we first started off, I knew it in my soul that this business could be – originally, my original goal was 10 locations in 10 years all the way to a million dollars. That was the original goal. Because this meant that these 10 veterans were going to have million-dollar businesses, which was a huge goal for me. I can remember when we – the first year, we did about 400,000 and that’s like, okay, well if these systems are working, let’s scale up, right? Let’s go for a million. I think it was – let’s see, we were in business for eight months, so 14… so we started it in like April, so it was eight months. Then by the next – it was like 18 months total. In 20 months, we did over – we did our first million, that’s what it was, in 14 months.
So we did 400,000 and then within 14 months, we did a million. Then that end of the year, we’re like, maybe we can do a million dollars in one period. We did 1.1 million or something like that. It was $1,030,000 or something like that. It’s like, we did it. That was a huge, huge milestone for a business, and even to this day, sometimes I look back and it’s like, well, it wasn’t that hard of a journey but it was difficult. I think a lot of businesses out there struggle with figuring out how to get to that seven figure business.
John Warrillow: What was it about the seven figures of revenue for you personally? Why was that goal important to you personally?
Mitch Durfee: Honestly, because I felt like it was something that – I was in the army. When I was deployed to Iraq, I made $28,000. I worked 84 hours a week, 365. I didn’t take a single vacation. It was like prison. To go from $28,000 a year working that hard, and I saw other people that were making millions of dollars and having these million-dollar businesses and it’s like, I’m working harder, I’m overseas, I’m putting my life on the line every day. This is not an easy job. And I’m looking at this, from being in the military to owning a business, I felt like if I could bridge that gap, I could pave the way for so many other people. That was important to me. Showing that yes, this is a great service, doing things for our country, but given a financial avenue or path that they could follow and become this lighthouse so other vets or people that are in that situation where it’s like, I’m not living it out to my full potential. Because it’s painful to know that you’re not living up to your full potential. I just wanted to be able to shorten that path for as many people as possible.
John Warrillow: All right, so let’s get back into the story. So you go from a million four in revenue doing all sorts of stuff and you window stuff down and you say, we’re going to focus in on just moving and junk. What were the revenues the next year? How much did you generate?
Mitch Durfee: That January, I think we made like $20,000. I mean, we cut back hard. It’s like, wow, that was painful. But by April, we’re back over 100,000. We did a 100,000 that month. Then it was like 140,000. Then 160,000. Because we just focused on the things and it’s like, we were doing even bigger a month now that we got rid of these other distractions, because when people came in, they knew what they were doing and we weren’t having to cross-train people and people became experts in their field. We could provide more value to our customers because we weren’t running around to try to take on other jobs. It’s like, everyday, here’s the system and it simplified everything. So we ended up crossing the million dollars again that year, which was amazing.
John Warrillow: What prompted you to want a sell, Mitch?
Mitch Durfee: At this point in time, after going through that – again, with your book, there was a moment in time where it’s like my business isn’t worth anything. I listened to your book and I read your book and was like, my business is worth nothing right now. I’ve built this company, if I try to sell it right now, it’s worth nothing. So it kind of put the whisper in my ear to think, maybe I can sell this at some point. What would I have to do in order to sell this?
But the moment in time when I decided to sell it was mostly because I kind of hit the ceiling. I mean, I pushed really hard to get it to where it was and then, like I said, we get a million dollars again that year after taking that big hit. It was like, “Okay, well this year let’s expand it. Let’s go back now that we have our systems in place and we expanded them to two more states.” It’s like, okay, well just to kind of put a feel out there, if I was going to sell it, what are we going to sell it for?
I listed it just to kind of get a feeler because at this time, I was also investing in a lot of real estate, and real estate’s always been a big passion for me. With your systems and processes that were in this book, the company actually didn’t really need me anymore. For 12 months, we got very clear on what we wanted to do with this business. After about seven months, we started getting those big months like the 160 months and 140s or 160s, it was like, “Guys, what do you want me to do today? Do you guys still need me here?”
I took a vacation, which was incredible. When you’re an entrepreneur and you can take a vacation and your business can run without you, that’s a very, very beautiful thing. I went to Tony Robbins’ Business Mastery and they’re like, “Oh, 87% of business never sell.” I’m like, well, I think my business could probably sell one day. I’d like to be at 13%. Like I said, the next six months, the company was basically running and I would find myself – I’d go into the office and I would ask if they needed anything and they’d be like, “We got this. You don’t need to be here.” What process can we work on today? Is there something we can do?
I doubled down on the revenue and that’s why I started two folks on expansions because my company was running smoothly. The advertisement and everything like that was already there. I couldn’t really figure out any more ways to create reoccurring revenue for the business, so expansion was really the only direction. We reached out to a couple other locations; Arizona and Texas, and I travel out there and help them grow their business just getting started, so we’re in four locations.
John Warrillow: So you franchised it, Mitch?
Mitch Durfee: We began to license, yeah. The franchising, that was in place. We started doing the FGDs and everything like that, but we did licenses with the first couple to make sure that they were successful. So we had two locations and then we brought on two more as like a license like, here’s something to – as we begin to franchise. And we started investing in getting the franchise lawyers and that’s when we got the offer. It’s like, oh man, what do I do now? Do I sell the company?
John Warrillow: So Mitch, to be clear, you had it listed for sale almost as a kind of feeler.
Mitch Durfee: Yeah.
John Warrillow: Not super serious, but then you received an inbound offer. What was your reaction to the offer? How did that come about?
Mitch Durfee: When I got the interest, I’m like, gee is this really happening? It’s tough, right? If you spend that much time building a business and building those relationships, it’s a piece of you. Your business is almost your identity. It was a challenge. First, I’m like, “Should I really sell it?” I remember actually, I took a day off, I went to the spa, and I just hang out there in the sauna and I thought about it. I played it out and I called Jay Cummings. Again, I said, “Hey Jay, I got an offer. What would you do?” He told me, he’s like, “If I were you, I would hold on to it. I mean you’re sitting on this legacy. You could build this thing up as big as you ever wanted it to be.” This is–
John Warrillow: Mitch, where are you at, at this point in the process? What’s your revenue, number of employees, et cetera?
Mitch Durfee: We were about 16 employees and we did like 1.2 million was that final year there. That’s when we got the offer. I would say one of the things that I would advise people is make sure you have two good years of books. Make sure your financial statements look good for the last two years so you don’t have to explain anything. If that–
John Warrillow: Did you have to explain? Did you have to explain something? So you’re doing a million two, you get this offer…
Mitch Durfee: Yeah.
John Warrillow: Before we get into that advice, I’d love to just learn a little bit more about the offer. So you get the offer. Where did you list the business, by the way? When you say it was listed, what do you mean by that?
Mitch Durfee: I just listed it on BizBuySell.
John Warrillow: So you listed it yourself?
Mitch Durfee: Yeah.
John Warrillow: Okay. When the offer–
Mitch Durfee: I got it straight–
John Warrillow: When the offer came in, did they – Describe the offer. Did they say, “Look, we’ll pay X dollars for it or X multiple?” What was the description of the offer?
Mitch Durfee: I listed it for the price. I put it up. I put it right on there like, this is what I’m looking for. When they gave the offer, they offered full value and it’s like–
John Warrillow: What did that amount to? I know we can’t talk about the exact number, but maybe on a multiple of earnings or something like that.
Mitch Durfee: I listed it for 2X multiple of our EBITDA, and like I said, we’re doing about 1.2 million at that point in time.
John Warrillow: In revenue.
Mitch Durfee: Yeah, in revenue, in gross. Yeah. We just listed it with the, “This is what I will need to escape from the business and maybe get me enough to figure out what I’m going to do next.
John Warrillow: How’d you come to that price, by the way? Why two times EBITDA? What was your thinking there.
Mitch Durfee: Why 2X? I wanted to leave a little meat on the bone for the next person. I think having it be attractive for them to come in and say, okay within a couple of years, then I can be able to pay off this. As long as I make it run for a couple of years, then we’re good. In my mind, I know service businesses typically don’t really sell for much more than 2-1/2 to like 4-1/2. I honestly – again, if you go back a couple of years, my business is worth nothing. It was a service business that it had no value. And like I said, that year, my income statement was like 30k. I’m cleared 30k after working an entire year. I’m like, am I back in the army again? I just worked – at least I was stateside. This was 10 years later after being out of Iraq and I’m right back to 30,000. It’s like, “Why?”
It was a little bit of a – I carried that scar with me for that year and when the opportunity came up, it was like, I don’t want to have to – even though our systems and process were in place, I didn’t want to go have to go through that pain again. Then the other part of it was we didn’t have – we tried to put subscription models and it wasn’t really subscription models. So really, my business was running without me and I’m the entrepreneur, so I need to be able to really force businesses up. That’s what I like to do is just go in and create systems in process and hire the right people and create these referral systems where customers keep coming back to us, but all that step was automated. So it’s like, I guess I could just own a company and have it, like Jay was saying, have it be a cash cow. Or I could do what my heart wanted, which was keep growing, and that’s really why I think I decided to sell it.
John Warrillow: Because it was the – you wanted that sense of newness, the sense of sinking your teeth into a new project.
Mitch Durfee: Exactly. Yup, exactly that.
John Warrillow: Fascinating. What’s the key – you mentioned two years of financial statements so you don’t have to explain yourself. It sounds like that’s something that you experienced personally. Tell me where you arrived at that lesson. What was the story behind that?
Mitch Durfee: I think, for me like I said, as we’re going back over the books, it’s like, “What’s going on with this year? Why is this year so bad?” Then also, if I went back to my finan– that one year after we went through this challenge, if next year I went through and I just cut more of those costs, because like I said I spent a lot of money to have to rebuild these systems and processes, so that year wasn’t even our full clean year. I invested a lot of money in the growth and advertise and restructure and rehiring and bringing teams in just for the optimization of the business. So having two years of financials, that 2X multiple would have been a lot more if I actually just spent one more year in the business. I’d say every year, if not every quarter, honestly, review your P&L for these things especially for entertaining the idea of selling it.
John Warrillow: So for you, you think you might have left some money on the table had you had sort of two or three years of consistent growth using the same business model, you may have done better.
Mitch Durfee: Oh yeah, I definitely would have.
John Warrillow: Mitch, it’s an amazing story to go from nothing clearly to an exit. Did you celebrate it in any special way? Did you buy yourself a trophy? Did you at least get yourself a new car?
Mitch Durfee: Yeah. When I came back from Afghanistan, I actually took a job as a BMW mechanic. I remember working there with my ear buds in listening to audio books while everyone else was listening to music in the shop. These people would come in and I always asked them, “What is it that you do?” They kept saying, “I’m a business owner. I own this business,” or, “I work for myself,” and I’m like, “One day, I’m going to own a BMW.” Literally, the day after I sold the company, I actually flew out of town because I didn’t have enough time after the sell of the company, I wish I – I would also advice, make sure you clear your schedule for a couple of weeks after sell because there are going to be some things that come up. I flew out to California because I had that on my schedule already. When I got back in town, I went to the dealership and I’m like, “I want this car right here.” They’re like, “Do you want to test drive it?” I’m like, “No. I know exactly what I want. I want that BMW, that 4 Series right there. I’ve pictured it for a long time and I just love that car.” It kind of like I bought it.
John Warrillow: The BMW 4 Series.
Mitch Durfee:` Yup, the gray coupe.
John Warrillow: Awesome. I love it. That’s great. Good for you. Way to celebrate. I think it’s important we celebrate these milestones with something, whether it’s financial or otherwise. Good for you. Mitch, it’s been great to have you on the show and to hear your story. I thank you for your service as well. What’s the best way for people to get in touch with you if they want to reach out on social media?
Mitch Durfee: You can find me on Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn. Just @mitchdurfee.
John Warrillow: That’s D-U-R-F-E-E, I believe.
Mitch Durfee: Yes. Definitely reach out.
John Warrillow: Awesome. There’s a website, can we – do you have a website as well?
Mitch Durfee: Yup, you can find me at mitchdurfee.com. Just M-I-T-C-H D-U-R-F-E-E. Just shoot me a message there anytime.
John Warrillow: Awesome. Mitch Durfee, thanks for joining us.
Mitch Durfee: Thanks so much.